{The List} City Improvements

[vovan]

Originally posted by General Ludd
Or for the rennesaince period you could have the choice between a military academy and a grand university.

Well, I wouldn't really like having to make this kind of choice either. I think that for all but a couple core cities, this choice is inherent in the fact that the city's production level can only erect so many buildings in a given time period, so you already have to make a choice and often times specialize the cities distant from the capital. I think it it more elegant a system, the way it is now, to have the player make a choice due to rather natural rules of production, instead of an artificial constraint that you propose.

[vovan]

Originally posted by Deathmerchant
And even for religous reasons, I should also be able to build both a temple and a shrine, or whatever. After all, many countries are multi-cultural, so I shouldn't have to choose between the two. So I don't think seperating buildings according to religion, or having to choose between two buildings are very good ideas.

I think you may be misunderstanding the idea a little bit. What is ixnay was talking about is essentially having the same building have different names for different cultures. I think the first step towards this has already been made in previous civ games. Look at the flavours in Civ3 for instance. If we take a look at the temple, it already looks different in a Japanese city, say, and a German city. So, ixnay is essentially proposing taking this further, and actually naming the buildings differently - like a temple for a european nation, or shrine for an asian nation, etc, though the buildings would have exactly the same effect.

I am not sure about that though. I think this may be somewhat confusing to players. If they see different names, it is only natural that they assume the buildings are different and have different effects...

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Deathmerchant


I really don't think it's a good idea to have to choose between two buildings. You should be able to build both, I mean really, why can't I build a Military Academy and a Grand University in the same city?

I didn't mean them to be regular buildings - I was talking about small wonders. When talking about military academies and universities, I was thinking more along the lines of huge, grand, buildings that would be the center of learning and direct the 'school of thought' that exists in that nation.


I just want to have some sort of distinction between nations - they should have different cultures and ideologies, and this is the best way I could think of for developing distinct personalities.

[Japher]

Don't know where to put this, but I would like more city improvements that come available only if:

a) you have the correct resource available to make it. Not only have more luxury resource, but then a special building that can be made from this luxury. I.e. farmers markets, totem poles, or the like. Also have similar building for if you have coal you can make x, if you have oil you can make y. Sort of like with that one building you could build if you only had oil AND coil, but for just one resource... (I obviously haven't played in a while).

b) if you are playin a specific race. Yeah, yeah, we all complain about the Germans building the Pyramids, but what about civ specific improvements? Each getting their own wonder and small wonder, similar to the UU?

[Tassadar500]

I like your ideas Japher. The more unique each civ is, the better.

[Deathmerchant]

I agree Japher, buildings shuold be more restricive in their construction, as in Civ2, I mean really, every city building a hydroelectric power station? Really now. Resource restricted buildings would be great, you can only build a coal planet if you had coal, makes sense, i'd say?

Vovan, the last part of my post was directed at General Ludd, sry for the confusion.

As an example, one of the earlier wonders could be a choice between various temples which then defines your nation's religion from there on.

This is what I was referring to, having a choice between various temples, which defines the religion of your country. I didn't think that would be a good idea. Just the thought of choosing your religion by building a wonder doesn't sound appealing. It should be a different option seperate of city improvements.

As for naming buildings differently for different civs, . I thought the same thing though, people may get confused when changing from civ to civ, which is why I think it was just simply named one name in the other civ games. Or not, maybe I'm being to harsh on the average intellegence of the people that play these games, since obviously it's a fairly bright crowd in here.

[Fosse]

This is a small thing, but great games are made in the details!

Could we please have the names and graphics of buildings update according to discovered technologies? It feels absurd to be building "aqueducts" in a city founded in the information age, after all.

Let aqueducts in the ancient age become sewers after the middle ages.
Let collesseums turn into stadiums.
etc.

The building could keep the same effect through time and a small (optional) message could alert the player that "Burial Mounds" have been replaced with "Memorial Cemetaries" so that they don't get lost.

The graphics already change, just make the names change too!



On a more gameplay effecting note:
Bring negative effects into improvments. The punishment sphere from SMAC was a neat improvment, because it had only limited use (and role play value!). The only negative effect of improvments is upkeep costs,and that's a little boring.

[Japher]

Could we please have the names and graphics of buildings update according to discovered technologies? It feels absurd to be building "aqueducts" in a city founded in the information age, after all.

I agree.

Bring negative effects into improvments

Nice. Thus, deciding weather to build something or not would be part of the game instead of just building one of everything. It would continue to help cities serve a more singular purpose, instead of ubermegacity which does everything. Which, IMO, should exist, but be few and far between.

To continue on your idea of having names and graphics change over time to reflect tech advancements; If you have already built an aquaduct, and you get a new tech, the aquaduct shouldn't just change to sewers, advance should be made to improve it. Improvements to existing structures could be used for the temple idea as well; it's an improvement not just a rebuild. Thus, it would be cheaper. Graineries upgrade to wharehouse, barracks upgrade to base, etc... I know it doesn't really do much to the actual game play, but it can give a better feel to the game, instead of having seemingly obsolete buildings around, and would also, once again, help to make the city more unique.

I guess that is what I am looking for; uniqueness. There should be cities that would be more cultural and political (i.e. New York, Paris, London, etc.), cities that are more industrial (i.e. Essen, Philly, etc.), and cities that are more agricultural (Fresno, have no idea of any others) - similar for science based and economic based. Building a military base, silo, factory, etc. in a cultural/political city would depress that influence, while, at the same time, building a stock market in an Ag city would be a bad idea, and not earn as much money as one in say Chicago.

I'm not sure how that would affect the cultural boundaries, or if it should, or if culture should be a sum of all your towns culture and not just a "distance from capitol" type thing. Especially with the dawn of the communication age where places like Hollywood have a great culture influence on places very far away.

However, to reiterate, I would like to see uniquess add to the cities in some way, I too would like to see "obsolete" buidings change or go away, and I am still on wondering about how such a thing would play with cultural bounderies.

[lajzar]

Rather than have buldings get renamed as time goes by, I'd prefer to see older buildings simply become irrelevant.

The ancient age barracks improvement only provides its benefit to pre-gunpowder units, then you need a military camp improvement to get that benefit for more modern units.

After a certain tech (plumbing?), a small wonder (national water grid?) becomes available which will build an aqueduct-equivalent in every city.

The coloseum improvement loses a point of effectiveness with electronics, and another with mass media. You can stil benefit from it if you really need that extra point of happiness, but except for the largest cities, you'll be better served by destroying it and buildinbg a more modern stadium.

Basically, the old improvements should become irrelevant through natural changes within the game.

[Enigma_Nova]

Would it be possible to gain some sort of 'Archaeology bonus' if you keep an unimproved building around for long enough?

Other than that, Sounds like a set of good ideas - especially those double-edged sword facilities and wonders.

[Fosse]

Originally posted by lajzar
Rather than have buldings get renamed as time goes by, I'd prefer to see older buildings simply become irrelevant.

That seems like an approach that would work, but is a much more substantial change than what I proposed, which is only a change in the cosmetic sense.

One of the nice things about SMAC compared to the Civ series is that you never felt anachronistic building a Recylcing Tanks (a first level tech building) in cities that you built ten turns before the game wound up ending.

If they decide to make a major design change that encompasses your suggestion, then that's fine.. if not, then please at least do something subtle!

[Drachasor]

What about just updating the icon's picture?

We still have aqueducts today, though the issue with them feeling weird is that we don't need them everywhere. Take a place like desert area though, and they are needed.

Barracks have the same name, but they look a lot different. Looks are the main thing that changes.

-Drachasor

[Enigma_Nova]

Not everything that was around in the olden days will still exist.

That, and I agree with the idea of an update fee - why does what some eggheads do in a lab mysteriously transform a chariot into a tank?!

[Tassadar500]

In Civ III, you do pay update fees

[Enigma_Nova]

Sorry about that... I don't know enough.